Talking To Madder Rose.
Madder Rose
The return of the melody makers
This article is gonna be pretty long. But you can simply summarize it with
four words as well: Madder Rose are amazing. Of course, I could be the only
one to think so, but I definitely believe it's true. I own thousands of
records, I go to (literally) hundreds of shows every year and basically I
spend most of my waking hours listening to music. But very rarely I get REALLY
excited about a band, a record or a show. At least not for long. Most of the
music I listen to is from the 60s and 70s and on almost every single one it's
melodies and harmonies first. Very, very few bands in the 90s still remember
that. They think a big sampler and a cool guitar-riff (stolen, to prove my
point, from old records) is enough. They are just wrong. That's where Madder
Rose come in. They know that good pop music is all about the melody and
everything else, as important as it is, should be secondary. Maybe they know,
because they weren't 18 or 21 anymore when they formed the band in 1991. Maybe
it was for different reasons, but when you listen to their first two albums
Bring It Down (which I rank as one of the 10 or 12 best albums of the decade)
and Panic On you'll know what I mean. They are also one of the best (and
loudest) live bands I've ever seen. At their shows in early 1994 even the
people with earplugs were wincing. And it was quite a sight to see them drink
whiskey straight out of the bottle as well. That's rock 'n' roll. You don't
even get that at a Keith Richards show anymore these days, kids!
Panic On was released on Atlantic, the company who did release Tragic Magic -
the 1997 follow-up - as well. Most people in Europe had lost track with Madder
Rose - Mary Lorson (guitar, vocals), Billy Coté (guitar), Johnny Kick (drums)
and Chris Giammalvo (bass) who replaced original member Matt Verta-Ray in 1994
- by that time, because Tragic Magic was never released in Europe. Exactly
five years after their last full European tour the melody makers from New York
State are finally back: Having signed a new recording contract, Tragic Magic
was released with two new tracks this spring and got very favourable reviews
everywhere. And now Madder Rose even have an all new album out. It's called
Hello June Fool and it's as good as anything they ever did. After a short tour
in England in late August and a few showcases on mainland Europe in September
the band, now living in upstate New York, hopes to be back for a more
extensive tour of Europe in October and November. I had the pleasure to talk
to Mary recently and here's what she had to say.
Okay, I guess at least some people remember that you toured here (in Europe) a
lot in 1994, right around the release of your second album Panic On on
Atlantic. Then we kinda lost track...
Mary: Yeah, let's see... We toured a lot on that record and we came home in
late '94, returned to New York City and then actually decided to move away, so
we moved up here, to western-central New York state about five hours away from
the city, about 300 miles from New York and we wrote most of Tragic Magic
here. Actually we wrote half of it in New York and the other half here. It
took a long time to make that record, partly because we were still on Atlantic
and things move kinda slowly when you're on a major. That came out in the
summer of '97 and we toured a bit. We also played the Phoenix Festival in
England that year, but the record was never released in England. They were
planning to release it, that's why we went over, but they never put it out.
I read some reports that the American label wasn't too happy with the album
either?
Mary: I don't know why, they said they were. To our faces, they said they
were, but probably they weren't and then they dropped us. But they were in the
process of restucturing, so they dropped us along with a lots of other bands
and we had to start all over again, because we lost our management right after
we lost our record deal. We started managing ourselves, found a new record
deal (with Cooking Vinyl in Europe and Thirsty Ear in the US). It's great! We
got label support that is way more compatible with our view of things now. And
that's really great cause you can communicate with these people, whereas you
couldn't with Atlantic. Three people would have to be involved if you had to
ask a simple question (laughs).
Was it important for you to have Tragic Magic re-released (or more precisely,
released properly for the first time) in Europe this spring?
Mary: Yeah! I was so happy because whether or not it is... it was a worthwile
effort on our part to make it. We put three years of our lives into it. It was
kind of the perfect way for it to come out. I'm proud of it, but it's not
exactly where I'm at right now. So I'm glad that people have an opportunity to
find it, if they are looking, but at the same time it's good to stick to the
more current stuff.
It was also good to ease your way back into people's minds, I guess, cause
most people I talked to recently replied: "Oh, great band, but I thought they
broke up three years ago".
Mary (laughs): Yeah! I heard that rumour, too, but we never did.
How do you approach your music?
Mary: The effort is always to be creative. And you try to find new ways to
play with it. We always kind of guard the melody, but the rest can be up for
grabs within the parameters of our talents. My voice is always gonna be what
it is. I'm never gonna be a screamer, so we couldn't be a (laughs) death-metal
band, but within what we are we always look for possibilites. And as I said,
we always protect the melody and try to start with a good song.
You started using samplers and things like that on the last two records. I'm
sure though a lot of people like you because you used to have a very
"traditional" approach , along those lines of: guitars-bass-drums-the end.
Mary: You just don't realize how much everybody uses these things. Partly
because it's not even a trend anymore, it's become part of a lexicon and also
partly because people are trying to make music more economically. There are no
record companies with any money anymore unless you're a major star, and if you
are a working musician you need to use these really accessible and afforable
tools. People can say that, but it would be a pretty naive accusation. It
might be fair to say on Tragic Magic we went a little hog-wild with toys, but
we definitely didn't on this one. I actually think this record is kinda simple
in a way.
How do you feel when people still bring up comparisons like The Velvet
Underground, My Bloody Valentine or The Jesus And Mary Chain now that you've
been together for eight years. Isn't that totally ridiculous?
Mary: People just need icons to describe music. I'm sorta just used to it and
those references are the ones that I respect, so I don't mind. But recently we
were reading the CMJ monthly ad somebody was described as being like us and so
I thought: okay, this is what happens eight years down the line (laughs).
Was that very thrilling?
Mary: Definitely, it was kinda neat (laughs).
When you look back on those eight years, are you pretty satisfied despite the
problems you had over the last few years?
Mary: Definitely. You never know what will crop up. Having the chance to make
records is rare. On the other side of the fence people think, oh you get a
record deal and everything is all set but it's just that you have the chance
to have a job at music and it requires just as much work as any other job. But
I feel really lucky to have had these opportunities. Money is a problem, but
it wasn't why any of us got into it.
I guess what sets you apart from a lot of other bands is the fact that you
weren't 18 or 21 anymore when Madder Rose started out. Do you think that was
an advantage?
Mary: Yes and no. I think it probably helped us understand the parameters of
the situation, we weren't sitting there thinking: Great, we gonna make a
million dollars, we didn't have any naive dreams. But I wonder sometimes if
that handicapped our perception by the record label.
I just re-read some old interviews with you from 1993 and '94 and you were
always like: Okay, we're gonna have our 15 minutes of fame and then we'll
probably disappear again. Some people might have thought: Well, if they don't
even want to get famous, why bother?
Mary: Oh, that's interesting! I was more thinking of the fact that we were
less marketable than younger bands might be.
But did you really approached things like that back then, or wasit just my
perception that you seemed to be very cautious about getting dragged into the
limelight?
Mary: No, we didn't do that on purpose. If they had pushed us, we would have
let them (laughs). It's a really weird world and I'm not kidding. Just two
years ago I was sitting in the office of the President of Atlantic Records and
he was holding my hand, looking me in eye and said: I'm gonna put you on the
road and I'm gonna make you a star just like I made Jewel a star [who sold
about 8 million records, in case you don't know - ed]. I'm not kidding, the
guy said that to me! And you sit there thinking: okay, I'll work, I'll go on
the road for a year, why not? We've been in this for a while, we deserve a
litte success. (laughs). And then all of a sudden you leave their office and
you NEVER HEAR FROM THEM AGAIN! I don't know how many people the guy did that
to or whether he meant it when he said it but later was unable to fulfill the
promise, I don't know. That really happened and that was only two years ago
and six months later we were on the street. They play on people's desire for
approval and that's something that as a musician I really trying to work on
right now, cause I'm too old to be bummed out when we get a bad review.
Do you really think about the whole business side of it a lot? We obviously
talked about it for quite a bit now, was that just because of my questions or
it that really on your mind a lot right now?
Mary: I think it is. We manage ourselves now and we need to be practical.
Maybe that made me a little more down to earth about it.
Is that a blessing or a curse?
Mary: I don't know. Probably both. It's fairly healthy to be responsible and
to be aware of the cause and effects. Careers that succeed are really not
magic and that's a good thing cause then I feel that if I work hard then I can
still have the privilege of making music.
My last question: How did the relationships within the band change over the
last say, four or five years. I guess it's been the same line up for five
years now?!
Mary: Yeah, Chris joined us in 1994. Our friendship gets stronger and
stronger. It's an odd friendships, but it's a really strong one and we all
have this thing that we do together that we don't do with anybody else. We are
just this Madder Rose thing and I love the fact that none of us bailed out
when we got dropped. It would've been so easy. The world was not begging us to
stay together hahaha. We just decided that we wanted to keep going and since
then we've been really, um, good.
Five records recommended by Mary Lorson:
Robert Wyatt's Shleep
Carsten: Nice choice!
Mary: That's a beautiful records,isn't it? It's just so simple.
Carsten: It's interesting that you picked it though, cause most people would
probably go for his early work, like the Soft Machines third album or
something.
Mary: I don't know any of his earlier stuff. I'm not an authority on him but I
love that record (laughs).
Van Morrison's Astral Weeks
Mary: Everybody in Europe has that, right?
No, I'm not sure.
Mary: I don't think people in the States really do.
It's an amazing record and he still does a lot of the songs live. I saw him a
lot last year and I was very impressed with Cypress Avenue.
Mary: Oh really? I'd love to see him live.
Lisa Germano's On The Way Down From Moon Palace
Mary: I love her first record, I don't know how many people have that. She's a
star. I just love her.
Did you have a chance to see her with Giant Sand as OP8?
Mary: No! But I saw her solo and she was great. That's funny though. After
that OP8 project came out ... I have that record and we just got dropped ...
that's when I thought: Let's call Thirsty Ear, they are cool! (laughs) (OP8
are on Thirsty Ear in the US - Carsten's note.) And I did, but he ignored me,
and in the end the label in England hooked us up with them.
The Raincoats' Odyshape
Mary: I bet a lot of people have these things. I'm not really on the cutting
edge of music.
Lilys' Eccsame The Photon Band (Possibly, as Mary couldn't remember the name
of the record I picked the album with the strangest title, the only one with
"made-up words". Hope I got it right - Carsten's note.)
Mary: There's this one record by The Lilys and I'm trying to remember the name
of it. It's got like a colour in the name as well, I think. He made up some
words as well. I can't remember the name of it but it's the most beautiful CD.
Copyright © 1999 Carsten Wohlfeld
Madder Rose: 'Hello June Fool' Track-by-Track.
For several years Madder Rose endured record company shenanigans that would have made others
quit. They didn't give up. Furthermore, they didn't forget who cared about them and they
survived their battles. They kept going in their quest to make the music within them.
Although Madder Rose are one of my favourite bands I will never claim that everything they
have done is fantastic, neither will they with their self-depreciating and modesty ways.
However, they learn from their mistakes and they always seek to push themselves towards
perfection, as any good band should do. There has always been a childlike bewilderment and
confusion towards human emotions in their songs that I've always connected with and that's
probably why I've stuck with them above all, for comfort and relief from the stresses of just
being a human. Madder Rose are; Mary Lorson (vocals/guitars/keyboards), Billy Coté
(guitars/keyboards/samples), Johnny Kick (AKA Rick Kubic, drums) and Chris Giammalvo (bass).
Without further ado here's what Billy had to say about their sublime new album 'Hello June Fool' track by track…
1. 'Feels Like Summer'
Brooding sultry opening track
One of my favourite Madder Rose tracks. We had this song for a while, but could never figure
out how to arrange it. We pretty much figured out how to approach it minutes before we recorded
it. We did not steal the title from Sing-Sing. We stole the title from Al Green, who released a
song by this name back in the 1970's. This song sounds like a really hot summer day feels,
which to me is an underlying theme of this record, although we didn't realise that until it was
done.
2. 'Overflow'
The album's first nod to Primal Scream
I was working on this track at our home studio when Mary came in at about 1:00 am. I asked her
to sing something over it and that was the verse. I wrote the chorus, and we were done. Mary
wrote the words, so I don't know what it's about, but they're suitably spooky.
3. 'Hotel'
"If I had one wish, I would not wish her well" sings Mary with surprising glee on this
delicious murder-flavoured prime pop cut
I was thinking about the grand folk tradition of the murder ballad, so I decided to try one.
Although its not plainly spelled out, the narrator kills the girl in the hotel. That's OK,
she didn't sound very nice.
4. 'Fade'
Johnny kicks up a cool rhythm and the rest revolves around it
This song started with a Rick/Johnny Kick drum pattern. I wrote the music and chorus, Mary
wrote the verse melody and lyrics. Nice bass playing and sound from Chris. You'll notice
Johnny/Rick has 2 names now. We figure that Rick is the good twin, and Johnny is the evil twin.
Often he'll start out the night as Rick, but end it as Johnny. Or Satan.
5. 'Goodbye June Fool'
Euphoric album centrepiece. Opens with Mary singing "First thing I wake up I think of Mary,"
a lyric penned by Billy. Autobiographical?
Although the character in this song is named Mary, it is not about Mary Lorson. It's a story I
wrote (and watched happen) before I even met Mary. I'm glad she didn't mind singing her own
name, otherwise it would have been something like, "First thing I wake up I think of Larry..."
Not so good.
6. 'Something'
Cool funky fretwork from Billy, strangely reminiscent of Primal Scream's 'If They Move,
Kill 'Em'
Kind of a NYC song, at least it sounds like that to me. Rick and Chris totally rock on this.
I really like the guitar solo, because it. Almost sounds backwards, but its not. As usual,
a beautiful vocal from Mary - no change there then.
7. 'You Remember'
One of the most hook-laden and poppy tracks, a good choice for a single
Slightly more up-beat than the rest of the record. Our friend Stahl got his clarinet out from
under his bed to play a couple of parts. Violin on this song, as well as on the rest of the
record, was by our friend Joe Myer. Joe is an interesting guy; painter, writer, poet & farmer.
He'll sometimes wear a shirt with an embroidered elephant on it. You have to be fuckin' cool to
pull that off.
8. 'Should Have Known'
Utterly gorgeous. A beautiful vocal from Mary, strings and woozy keyboards. The best track
by far, well in my opinion anyway
Mary wrote most of this beautiful song, and I just tried to make it sound mysterious. Our good
friend Jennie Stearns sang back up vocals on this as well as on the last song, 'Dark Rain.'
Someday soon I hope you can hear her record, which Mary plays and sings on.
9. 'Talking to Myself'
No-one soundtracks relationship breakdowns quite like Madder Rose, another highlight
We originally recorded this for 'Tragic Magic' but it came out lame. Better this time. Kind of
a classic break-up song. It's a sister song to track 6, 'Something'.
10. 'Train'
Slinky trippy atmospherics tied to a crunchy chorus
This song came from a jam that Mary, Rick, and I had in our basement. It was going to be an
instrumental, but then Mary came up with that chorus. Our friends Zahn & Mike played trombone
and sax on this, as well as samples of dead jazz men who are probably spinning in their
graves-spinning in strict tempo.
11. 'Dark Rain'
Strung-out closing track
A song Mary & I wrote together, about redemption, I suppose. I originally wanted it to be the
title track, but Mary and everyone else said 'Hello June Fool' was a better title. You'll
notice the last part of this song was also used as the coda to 'Feels Like Summer.' See how we
tied it all in? What a concept. This song is gonna sound great live. Probably a bit more
freaked out.
(c) 1999 Adrian Pannett. This interview originally appeared in Under The Surface #1.
Used by permission.
